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Talk:Crazy Ideas Page
Where Crazy Ideas go to die. (I think that's what anon said.) ThatSlowTypingGuy (talk) 06:47, November 9, 2016 (UTC) Deci (variants) I always feel like I'm derailing the thread on /qst/ when posting something like this while one's active but if I post it here I'm worried 90% of the people participating in H&D won't ever read it... this also going to include quite a bit lot of guesswork, as we don't have a long and detailed article on this ship class. Anyway, regarding this: "The Deci doesn't seem to be popular" - I can kinda understand why that's the case. Newer designs offer more weapons and the Deci has a pretty bad reputation in-universe. It also doesn't really fit Sonia's way of conducting space battles in most situations with it's relatively low speed (equal to medium cruiser without AB?). However, people tend to forget that assault corvettes only work well with highly trained crews and have very high maintenance requirements. It's the same situation with most attack cruisers, I'd guess. With the Deci, that's not really a problem as the spaceship is much closer to a present day surface navy ship than a 21st century fighter. You don't need a pilot who has to evade, assess the situation, and handle target priorities all at once, all those roles will be split between dozens of crew members, meaning you can get some decent performance out of this ship without having the crew go through months of training that only a relatively low percentage of people can complete successfully anyway. It would also help alleviate J-D's problem of having too many candidates for knighthood, as there a less chances to distinguish yourself with a crew setup like that. The design is also supposed to be highly modular, so if people feel like putting modern weapons on it, there should be little to stop them from doing that. Also, the Deci is really cheap for a battleship and while the classic armament isn't too impressive, it's been something like 400 years since the last proper upgrade, and for the price it still seems like a very decent deal. Especially the missile batteries will most likely render Deci formations highly resistant against torps, drones, and fighter craft which seems especially important with the increasing number of AM torps fielded in the 4030s. Considering its shape it would also benefit heavily from surface shields. I'm also going to assume the basic configuration is low tech as fuck, so getting civilian yards to switch to this ship without having to worry about upgrades or a supply of super advanced components would be another advantage. If you compare what you get for the price of one Deci compared to some other options, it gets pretty hilarious: 1x Dominion Fast BB = 1 Deci + 2 attack cruisers 1x Athena BB without modules = 2 Decis + 1 attack cruiser 1x Ascendancy heavy cuiser = ~72 Decis + change (Going with 3 billion for a baseline Ascendancy) 1 wing of Decis = 2.52 billion There's also the problem that, no matter how advanced, a single ship can't be in two places at once. The recent invasion of DRH 1 ran into that problem with their mobile fortress, and there are very likely many situations in regular combat where having a mediocre battleship nearby is better than having none. Having decent BBs available in three different battles at the same time instead of having one awesome BB in one seems preferable to me. Insert WW2 tank analogy here. TL;DR: It's cheap, you can put conscripts in it and they will still perform okay enough, it's easy to modify, performance is still decent, and you can easily field lots of them. And to suggest some additional variants: Escort Deci - A dedicated medium cruiser escort. Enough engine power to escort the medium they're designated to, more shields and weapons against ship their medium Mining Deci - A rugged, compact mining ship that can be built in BB/transport yards. Drone/Starfighter Deci - Throw out most weapon systems, replace them with hangars. While significantly slower than the alliance escort carrier, the increased hull volume should allow it to field a lot more than 48 fighters. It would probably be closer to the LTSC in capacity. Repair Deci - the hull should be large enough to support repair facilities for 6-8 Assault Corvettes or 2 Attack Cruisers Spotter Deci - During the DRH 1 invastion the array's gunners liked to use the Sonia's light artillery Deci to find good firing lanes for their shots. The ship still could act as light long range support but this could be a role for which we could sell the ship to the alliance or people using heavy siege cannons in general. Fast Deci - Glue the engine section of 2 additional Decis to the baseline design. No idea why anybody would want to use this but it would probably work. 20-30% increase in mass while increasing thrust by 200%? - Stinky Uninformed Opinion Ahead! One of the biggest problems with the Deci is that it doesn't fit the Dominion's bread and butter: spam lots of small, minimally crewed ships to overwhelm your foes. Battleships require more command crew, engineering crew, logistics, material, and larger yards to produce than corvettes. The Assault Corvette isn't perfect, but there is the Kharbos stopgap Attack Corvette mk2 thing for lesser skilled pilots. Updating a rather ancient design with a terrible reputation into an era where most modern corvettes and attack cruisers are starting to mount high maneuver drives in at least some capacity just doesn't seem very practical, unless you are looking for a budget Centurion or something. In which case I'd personally reply with "why not spam captured/Faction-made Neeran Balls in wall formations instead?" SIEGE BALLS *My response focuses more on Deci's being low-skill/maintenance replacements for attack cruisers (unless I am misunderstanding that part?), but the idea of using them as alternatives to larger ships has some merit. Still not sure they would be a viable choice longer term, as I imagine they'll basically end up as a larger Knight Class as plasma weapon usage proliferates. There may also need to be a consideration given on the prices. Are the given/stated prices the costs from Faction Wars era Kavarian mass production? - The above already points out very good points when it comes to getting an army in the cheap but we can't forget that Jerik-Dremine is still relatively small, meaning manpower is quite limited, and mainly focuses on highly skilled individuals and a meritocratic method of advancement rather than simple tonnage. This is why the attack/assault corvette fits the needs of JD so well. It's better to have 1 great pilot and 14 mediocre pilots flying 15 ships than 1 great pilot flying a single ship -''RE: the Spotter Deci. The heavy weapon gunnery crews on the mega class ships were getting the most out of that spotting. As for the various designs and the overall reasons for mass producing them, yes there are certainly advantages to a cheap as hell hull design. '' All of this discussion of Deci variants has given me a wonderfully off topic idea. It's true they're unpopular, both with most players and the Dominion. What if it wasn't produced and marketed for the Dominion but used to improve the output of Iratar's Kavarian competitors? Iratar may control and run the government but contrary to appearances they're not allowed a 100% monopoly on military contracts. Parts of the Dominion could provide backing to these competitors. If successful enough these other companies could later push for a market share of the government. It's not like Iratar cant be accused of trying to do the same to the Dominion, they just didn't go full Aries about it like their competitors. --ThatSlowTypingGuy (talk) 06:01, February 23, 2017 (UTC) - I think there's definitely a market in the Dominion and even J-D for the Deci. Sell them to small Houses who can't afford the medium cruisers they want, or Houses that need to bulk up their military with heavier ships without breaking their budget. Use them as escorts for medium and heavy cruisers like the Kilos we had escorting Forbearance. The Spotter Deci should be recommended to anybody who buys a ship with siege or large plasma cannons. Unfortunately, it's fairly obvious this is leading nowhere. 11:39, February 23, 2017 (UTC)